• [00:00:13] Intro jingle and podcast presentation
• [00:01:07] Will AI replace salespeople?
• [00:01:28] How salespeople already use AI
• [00:03:10] The most impressive uses of AI
• [00:03:36] The limits of AI in prospecting
• [00:04:01] The 3 major changes in sales
• [00:04:48] Testimonial from Sophie Dive
• [00:05:47] Prospecting automation
• [00:06:14] An AI voice on the phone that sounds real
• [00:07:04] Why humans are becoming essential again
• [00:07:38] Is AI really replacing salespeople?
• [00:07:59] Testimonial from Hamza Dakir
• [00:08:44] Why AI scripts still sound fake
• [00:09:15] Can AI build good prospect lists?
• [00:09:41] The wildest dreams around AI
• [00:10:49] What AI still does not understand
• [00:11:25] Testimonial from Fabio Artis
• [00:12:08] The danger of AI-generated messages
• [00:12:44] The 5 key human skills
• [00:13:52] How to use AI effectively in sales
• [00:14:14] What if AI becomes better than us?
• [00:14:36] 5 concrete actions to apply
• [00:15:17] How far can automation go without losing humanity?
• [00:15:26] The challenge for listeners
• [00:16:01] Episode conclusion

[00:00:13] Stéphane Depaepe: Hello and welcome to this new episode of the podcast 'Performance, Harmony & Commercial' produced by PHCom in the studio of 'transforma bxl' with the technical assistance of 'The Podcast Factory Org'

[00:00:23] Nadia Ben Jelloun: The podcast 'Performance, Harmony & Commercial' is intended for marketing and sales managers, as well as company directors taking on commercial roles.

[00:00:32] Stéphane Depaepe: Every month, we share with you good experiences in finding new clients for companies active in business to business.

[00:00:38] Nadia Ben Jelloun: You can find each episode on the PHCom dot be website, P.H.C.O.M, and also on all good podcast platforms.

[00:00:48] Stéphane Depaepe: You can support this podcast and boost its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible via a like, a comment, a share.

[00:00:55] Nadia Ben Jelloun: The answering machine is always active so you can leave us a message, we will gladly answer it.

[00:01:00] Stéphane Depaepe: You can also book an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane by going to PHCom dot be.

[00:01:06] Nadia Ben Jelloun: See you soon!

[00:01:07] Stéphane Depaepe: Hello and welcome to 'Performance, Harmony & Commercial', the podcast that helps you prospect better without becoming a robot.

[00:01:13] Camille de Meeûs: And today, we're actually going to talk to you about robots.

[00:01:16] Stéphane Depaepe: Yes, rather their modern version: artificial intelligence.

[00:01:20] Camille de Meeûs: A fascinating subject, but also a little bit unsettling. Because the real question behind all this is, does the salesperson really still have a future?

[00:01:28] Stéphane Depaepe: Well, big spoiler: yes, but they will have to evolve. Let's start from the beginning. Camille, you prospect; in what cases do you use AI?

[00:01:39] Camille de Meeûs: Mainly when I write emails. I copy-paste my basic email and ask the AI to add information that might be necessary for me when writing the email. And you, Stéphane, in your job as a business development consultant, in what cases do you use artificial intelligence the most?

[00:01:55] Stéphane Depaepe: I have a whole range of them, I must admit. I find it to be a fascinating tool. First of all, to summarize my notes after an interview, a commercial meeting that lasts 1 hour, is summarized in a few lines in a few minutes. Some offers also go through AI, I admit, I run the key elements of the offer through ChatGPT or Gemini. When I prepare client missions as well, I ask it for the questions to ask to qualify a prospect. I've done a wonderful briefing, I have lots and lots of information, how do I synthesize this information? I also benchmark my client's offer, which means that ChatGPT can really quickly fetch all the information on the web about all the competitors, and highlight the differences. Even the emails we prepare, I let the AI propose something to me. Mission reports, because after three months, or six months, or a year of work, we have a wealth of information and ChatGPT can really do a good synthesis, a good analysis of all this information, even create Excel files, graphs, cross-analyses, it's quite fascinating. However, I rework everything. And while sometimes the AI gives me 80% good content, in other cases, we slip closer to 20%, so you have to remain super vigilant.

[00:03:10] Camille de Meeûs: And what is the thing that amazes you the most about AI?

[00:03:13] Stéphane Depaepe: Little "hot call" buttons that we installed in our CRM. In fact, with a single click of a button, it fetches all the available and necessary information to properly prepare for a prospecting call. That means that, in fact, our business developers, instead of spending ten to fifteen minutes before making a call, push a button, have all the information, and can focus on the contact.

[00:03:34] Camille de Meeûs: And where are you the most disappointed with AI, when is that?

[00:03:36] Stéphane Depaepe: Clearly, today, database construction. There are plenty of people who tell me "Yeah, it works well, it gives lists". In all honesty, the lists are nonsense. We usually analyze the filter rate, that is to say, the uninteresting companies that we approach. If I have an AI-generated list of 100 companies, well, rather than having ten or fifteen uninteresting companies, I'll have 30 or 40, and really not well qualified.

[00:04:01] Camille de Meeûs: Ultimately, the profession is still changing, let's face it. In this podcast, we will cover the different changes that AI brings to the sales profession, and we will also give you five habits to adopt to do your job with performance and harmony. Listen to us until the end. Before, the salesperson spent their time looking for information, names, numbers, organizational charts. AI can do it easily and perform everything that is repetitive and give you access to the various information.

[00:04:28] Stéphane Depaepe: Today, in 30 seconds, with AI you can get the right contact, their role, their LinkedIn connection, sometimes even their cell phone. In fact, AI is truly a game changer in the preparation phase. And in fact, for sure, that still represents 80% of the work to pull off a good call.

[00:04:43] Camille de Meeûs: So, first change, we go from information seeker to interpreter.

[00:04:48] Stéphane Depaepe: Exactly. Everyone has access to the same info. When you ask a business developer like Sophie, listen to what she tells you.

[00:04:54] Sophie Dive: In my prospecting for PHC om, I use artificial intelligence almost spontaneously today, meaning that via Google, I ask via AI, the HR for example, or the Facilities manager for such and such company. And there, right away, I have all the information, I have the name of the person in charge of what I am looking for, their cell phone number, and possibly a link to their LinkedIn profile. So it saves me a crazy amount of time if I can reach the right contact directly without going through any random platforms. It is fast, efficient, and the advantage is that the information I receive is up to date.

[00:05:38] Stéphane Depaepe: So having up-to-date info is super key and super easy. The difference today won't be made on what you know, but on what you do with it.

[00:05:47] Camille de Meeûs: Second major change: automation.

[00:05:50] Stéphane Depaepe: Today, you can automate lots of things, auto-reply emails, automated LinkedIn sequences where it sends an invitation, it sends messages, it allows you to send follow-ups. Automating tools that will generate personalized messages, sent emails. And even AI voices that will be identical to yours, but with artificial intelligence, you don't even need to call anymore.

[00:06:14] Camille de Meeûs: Yes, and that is quite fascinating and worrying, speaking of which I have a little anecdote to tell you. One day I was with my mom, and she gets a call from Proximus. She puts the caller on speakerphone and says 'Oh, this lady seems very nice, she speaks well to me,' etc. But actually, it was entirely an artificial intelligence. I immediately felt that it was an artificial intelligence, but my mom was convinced she was really speaking to a human being. I must say it's quite impressive but equally disturbing.

[00:06:40] Stéphane Depaepe: Exactly. And the risk with that is you're going to automate everything, so you can do mass volume. And when you start doing mass volume, what happens? There's a knee-jerk reaction that happens in the market. You remember the mass mailings we used to send and then you receive, you receive and then at some point the spam button was invented, and you don't receive mass mailing anymore because there's no interest. At first it works, then at some point it gets tiring, and then it gets annoying.

[00:07:04] Camille de Meeûs: And the third key change is the return of the human. Paradoxical, but still completely logical.

[00:07:09] Stéphane Depaepe: The more automation there is, the more precious the human relationship becomes. And there, I really need to feed myself as a human being, as a person, and we'll look at that later in the podcast.

[00:07:21] Camille de Meeûs: Okay, I'll summarize the three key shifts, and then we'll talk about the division of tasks between humans and artificial intelligence. One, access to the mass of information forces you to know how to interpret it well. Two, automation can save you time. And three, the human relationship remains central in the business relationship.

[00:07:38] Stéphane Depaepe: Collaboration between humans and AI is super positive. So AI is not going to replace the salesperson, let's stay calm, however, what it will do is replace the salesperson's tasks.

[00:07:49] Camille de Meeûs: Tell us more.

[00:07:50] Stéphane Depaepe: AI is excellent for, as I was saying earlier, analyzing, structuring, synthesizing, preparing. Listen to what Hamza, our production director, does with it.

[00:07:59] Hamza Dakir: AI, practically speaking, helps me save time. That's the number one use of AI, saving time, so it allows me to translate a text, summarize meetings, summarize documents, rephrase certain documents. Everything that used to take me half an hour, three quarters of an hour takes me three or four minutes today, that is clearly one of the points where I use AI to the fullest.

[00:08:20] Stéphane Depaepe: What amazed you the most?

[00:08:22] Hamza Dakir: Structuring my ideas, that, that amazed me the most. In fact, we have a lot of scattered ideas, thanks to AI, it allows you to structure them. So it's something that is completely neutral and that actually allows you to see more clearly, because we have so many ideas that are sometimes crazy, well AI will allow you to structure them. That amazed me because that helps enormously, being able to structure your own ideas.

[00:08:44] Stéphane Depaepe: You let AI create a script?

[00:08:46] Hamza Dakir: Personally no, because I find it impersonal, and so my method is to prepare a script on the fly, possibly correct it for standardized formatting, but not for creating the script. Because that's perhaps the area where AI still needs work in the coming years, to see a more human script, there you go. Starting from a base possibly, yes, and adjusting it, yes, maybe that, but making me a script overall, no.

[00:09:15] Stéphane Depaepe: In business development, there's always the files part. Has AI ever helped you develop, find good files, build a good list of companies to prospect?

[00:09:25] Hamza Dakir: It's not an attempt I've made, no honestly. AI will help me more to organize a mission plan, possibly segmentations. And that's where it's very strong actually, but maybe going to search for files, helping me determine what the targets are, no.

[00:09:40] Stéphane Depaepe: In your wildest dreams, what would AI do?

[00:09:44] Hamza Dakir: Prepare client emails, call scripts, replies, succeed in structuring an offer, organizing a complete campaign? And there you go, so that would be the wildest dreams, but we might get there one day, but I think we'll always need the human touch, precisely to guide it.

[00:10:00] Stéphane Depaepe: At that point we won't have any work left, what do we do?

[00:10:02] Hamza Dakir: Well no, we'll always have work. The human element is always essential, right? The human element is a very important part of our job, so ultimately AI is just an additional support that can help us improve our capacity to have ideas, to have scripts, and to have a very specific approach. AI is there to engage with us and be our sparring partner, potentially challenging us. It's really going to help us analyze, to challenge, but there you go, I don't think the profession will disappear, far from it.

[00:10:29] Stéphane Depaepe: Do you use it every day, every week, every month?

[00:10:31] Hamza Dakir: No, every day, every day. AI has become a fully-fledged tool today. There you go, AI today, well, it doesn't decide for me, it can be wrong, clearly, and it will never replace my own internal, on-the-ground judgment and my experience. So that is the big advantage we still have today in our profession.

[00:10:49] Camille de Meeûs: But it still has to be said, it is also weak in several areas. It is weak at feeling, understanding nuances, managing contradictions, and creating a connection.

[00:10:58] Stéphane Depaepe: Simple example: a prospect tells you, "No, it's not the right time." What does AI hear? Well, an objection. The good salesperson, on the other hand, hears a doubt, a fear, a priority that lies elsewhere. And that changes everything for the rest of the discussion. And actually, selling isn't just calculating, it's also feeling and adapting. Fabio is one of our developers, he has some good examples regarding this.

[00:11:25] Fabio Artis: Artificial intelligence will never be able to replace humans. What I mean by that is that the approach we have, the voice we have, the intentions, there is the unwritten, there is the non-verbal. Here, we intervene as people, and the machine is not at all ready yet to be able to replace this intervention. Because there's the emotional aspect, there's the active listening aspect, and there's the contextual aspect, which AI is not yet ready for... And I believe it never will be, it will never be human in a way. So this duality between robotics and humans, to answer you very frankly, AI has its limits, in our profession at least. They say it will replace it, but no. No, it will simply never be able to replace the quality of a call from a real person.

[00:12:08] Camille de Meeûs: You have to know that AI is an amplifier; if you are good, you become very good. If you are average, you become a little faster, but you still remain average.

[00:12:17] Stéphane Depaepe: A real need to constantly improve, isn't there?

[00:12:19] Camille de Meeûs: There is a major danger today, the fact that everyone is using the same tools and everyone is sending the same messages.

[00:12:25] Stéphane Depaepe: And that is noticeable.

[00:12:26] Camille de Meeûs: This perfect tone that sounds empty, that is hollow.

[00:12:28] Stéphane Depaepe: This personalized message, but which we send to 200, or 2000 people.

[00:12:33] Camille de Meeûs: And there, that's clearly the moment where we completely lose the impact. If everyone uses the same AI, the only difference is you. As we were saying, you are the best interpreter, and it's very important to remember that.

[00:12:44] Stéphane Depaepe: That is exactly the heart of the matter. What will make the difference tomorrow is no longer so much the mastery of information, but it will be, and here I summarize the five points for you. A first one is the ability to create a bond.

[00:12:54] Camille de Meeûs: If you allow me, I'll translate it my way. The bond is emotion, trust, presence.

[00:12:59] Stéphane Depaepe: Second point, it's critical thinking.

[00:13:00] Camille de Meeûs: Do not blindly believe what the AI says. Cross-check all your information.

[00:13:04] Stéphane Depaepe: Questioning.

[00:13:05] Camille de Meeûs: We always come back to it, that is to say knowing how to ask the right questions, at the right time. Genuinely taking an interest in what the other person is telling you.

[00:13:12] Stéphane Depaepe: A fourth point is real personalization.

[00:13:14] Camille de Meeûs: And not just of the "Hello Sammy" style, but truly enter the universe of the other.

[00:13:19] Stéphane Depaepe: A final point, clarity.

[00:13:21] Camille de Meeûs: And there, it is clearly understanding the other, and making yourself understood. If you help the client understand their own situation, you will have great opportunities to build something together.

[00:13:32] Stéphane Depaepe: It's still pretty mind-boggling when you look at a summary made by AI, it repeats the same thing three times in three paragraphs, using different words. It's exhausting, it's not clear. So, in summary, less execution for the salesperson but more intelligence. And I'm going to talk about relational intelligence too.

[00:13:52] Camille de Meeûs: And so here, it's not that we're demonizing AI, quite the contrary, it's extremely powerful and we must never forget that it's a real lever.

[00:13:59] Stéphane Depaepe: It indeed saves time, helps you be better prepared, better structured. But AI must be used in the right place. AI should help prepare. Humans should persuade. AI can help you analyze, but it's still up to the human to decide.

[00:14:14] Camille de Meeûs: On the other hand, we can imagine that in five years, AI will also do all of that.

[00:14:17] Stéphane Depaepe: Certainly. What will our society be like when AI has all the emotions and all the wonderful techniques of persuasion? It will indeed be able to persuade, it will indeed be able to decide for you. I suggest we leave that question hanging anyway, because tomorrow's society will be whatever we make of it.

[00:14:36] Camille de Meeûs: Concretely, today, we are giving you five actions to take to fully benefit from AI in your sales job.

[00:14:42] Stéphane Depaepe: So, the first point is to use AI to prepare for every call.

[00:14:45] Camille de Meeûs: But never to replace the interaction.

[00:14:48] Stéphane Depaepe: Work on your style.

[00:14:49] Camille de Meeûs: Your voice, your tone, your way of interacting.

[00:14:51] Stéphane Depaepe: Prioritize quality over volume.

[00:14:52] Camille de Meeûs: Fewer messages, but more qualitative ones.

[00:14:55] Stéphane Depaepe: Test, test continuously.

[00:14:57] Camille de Meeûs: Experiment, adjust, learn.

[00:14:59] Stéphane Depaepe: And keep the real human touch.

[00:15:00] Camille de Meeûs: Keep the meetings, the calls, and the discussions that are real. And a very important question remains (Stéphane Depaepe: Yes): how far will we automate? And at what point do we dehumanize ourselves? Because AI allows you to go faster, but you're still the one who decides how far you're willing to let go with AI.

[00:15:17] Stéphane Depaepe: If we automate everything, what is left?

[00:15:20] Camille de Meeûs: As Mrs. Harmony, I give you three points: the relationship, the exchange, and the understanding of the other.

[00:15:26] Stéphane Depaepe: Thank you. I leave you with, or rather, I give you a challenge for the week. To you listening, please, if you are prospecting, choose a prospect, prepare for them with AI, and really, in depth. Go collect the info, think about them, visualize everything you're going to say to them, and then, experience the exchange yourself, with your voice, your energy, some joy, your pep. Total commitment.

[00:15:53] Camille de Meeûs: I would even add a dose of love, and observe the difference. Take two minutes after your call or meeting and share your experience with us.

[00:16:01] Stéphane Depaepe: Okay with you? Ready to go? Are you playing the game all out?! Thank you then, thank you for listening, thank you for participating, thank you for remembering to be yourself.

[00:16:10] Camille de Meeûs: And above all don't forget, share this episode with someone who thinks AI is going to replace salespeople.

[00:16:15] Stéphane Depaepe: Remember, performance is efficiency.

[00:16:17] Camille de Meeûs: And harmony is meaning.

[00:16:20] Camille et Stéphane ensemble.: See you very soon.

• [00:00:13] Intro jingle, podcast presentation
• [00:01:07] Inbound vs outbound meeting
• [00:01:28] Difference between inbound and sales prospecting
• [00:01:50] Should these meetings be handled differently?
• [00:02:00] Key differences and trust
• [00:03:34] Understanding inbound requests
• [00:04:21] Common mistake about trust
• [00:05:24] Trust level depending on the channel
• [00:06:45] The 4 levers to build trust
• [00:08:18] Adapting your posture to the prospect’s profile
• [00:08:57] The importance of the first seconds
• [00:09:19] The role of time in the relationship
• [00:09:31] Confusion between interest and trust
• [00:10:25] Finding the right sales pace
• [00:11:11] Creating attention in prospecting
• [00:11:24] Establishing priority with the prospect
• [00:11:41] Differences in sales mindset
• [00:12:04] Defensive selling in inbound
• [00:12:29] Opposite excess in prospecting
• [00:13:03] Sensitive topics often avoided
• [00:13:54] Addressing budget, decision and commitment
• [00:14:35] Structuring the sale without skipping steps
• [00:14:46] Sales as a staircase, not a straight line
• [00:16:16] Summary
• [00:17:07] Episode closing

Intro jingle, podcast presentation

[00:00:13] Stéphane Depaepe: Hello and welcome to this new episode of the podcast "Performance, Harmony & Commercial" produced by PHCom in the "transforma bxl" studio, with technical support from "The Podcast Factory Org"

[00:00:23] Nadia Ben Jelloun: The "Performance, Harmony & Commercial" podcast is designed for marketing and sales managers, as well as company executives taking on commercial roles.

[00:00:32] Stéphane Depaepe: Every month, we share best practices in finding new clients for companies active in business-to-business.

[00:00:38] Nadia Ben Jelloun: You can find each episode on the PHCom dot be website: P.H.C.O.M, and also on all major podcast platforms.

[00:00:48] Stéphane Depaepe: You can support this podcast and boost its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible via a like, a comment, or a share.

[00:00:55] Nadia Ben Jelloun: The answering machine is always active so you can leave us a message; we will answer it with great pleasure.

[00:01:00] Stéphane Depaepe: You can also book an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane by visiting phcom dot be.

[00:01:06] Nadia Ben Jelloun: See you soon.

Inbound vs outbound meeting

[00:01:07] Stéphane Depaepe: Hello Madam Harmony.

[00:01:08] Camille de Meeûs: Hello Mister Performance.

[00:01:10] Stéphane Depaepe: Today's topic: Handling an inbound B2B appointment versus a hunted appointment, what differences should be taken into account? We have talked a lot about hunting in the context of prospecting, and it is clearly our profession!

Difference between inbound and sales prospecting

[00:01:28] Camille de Meeûs: Now, it's important to discuss the proactive approach of reaching out to target companies and contacts as well. There is also what we call inbound, which is making these people or companies come to you.

[00:01:41] Stéphane Depaepe: As a result, we end up with two types of appointments to handle: an appointment made from an inbound request and appointments that were hunted down.

Should these meetings be handled differently?

[00:01:50] Camille de Meeûs: That is exactly today's topic. How to handle each of these appointments? Knowing that they are made in different contexts and that therefore, in principle, their treatment must also be different.

Key differences and trust

[00:02:00] Stéphane Depaepe: We are going to talk about these differences, but differences in needs, specific requests, techniques, treatments, timing to manage the relationship, but also mindset, closing systems. And above all, we are going to talk about trust.

[00:02:15] Camille de Meeûs: Perhaps we will start with these appointments made from incoming requests, what is called inbound marketing.

[00:02:20] Stéphane Depaepe: So we are not going to describe all the means to attract these people, it is clear that communication is key. There are many advertising solutions, mailing, social networks, distribution networks too, or even resellers. A well-referenced website, recommendations made by AIs: ChatGPT, Perplexity, Gemini.

[00:02:42] Camille de Meeûs: It works, and it's quite comfortable to receive requests, and to be able to process them. We could talk about all these means in a future podcast perhaps?

[00:02:48] Stéphane Depaepe: Yes. So, let's stay on today's topic, what difference in treatment to apply to these inbound appointments, or to those you have been hunting for? Let's start with inbound appointments. Sometimes you have to call them to get the appointment, sometimes there are appointments that come directly into your calendar, as you said, it's super comfortable. Some problems arise nevertheless. What I hear mainly from salespeople is the incoming flow of requests is not sufficient, I don't have enough. The incoming flow is too important, we can no longer keep up. Or again, the incoming requests are not of quality, in fact the people who call me back to set an appointment, it's nice but they are not interesting at all. Or the appointment that was made, it's not interesting at all.

Understanding inbound requests

[00:03:34] Camille de Meeûs: Ok, I hear your point, and let's talk about these famous appointments precisely, which I understand are not always well qualified. If we want to handle these appointments in good conditions, we must start from the mindset of someone who calls you. I suggest two scenarios. One, you are called by recommendation. Two, through communication, people come to you like: thanks to your well-referenced website, thanks to ChatGPT, Perplexity, or another artificial intelligence that recommends your company. Or maybe you were a speaker at an event, where you were seen at a trade show, or your mailing is bearing fruit. In both cases, a first positive filter has already taken place, someone or something said for you "Hey, it's worth a look!"

[00:04:15] Stéphane Depaepe: Exactly. These two scenarios already make it possible to define at what level of trust the relationship starts.

Common mistake about trust

[00:04:21] Camille de Meeûs: And that is where many salespeople are mistaken. They think that trust is already 100% there, 100% established, when in reality it is a variable, a capital, something that is built, consumed, and sometimes has to be regained.

[00:04:34] Stéphane Depaepe: Indeed, and therefore this capital is not always the same. So in B2B, the sale never starts at zero, but neither does any start at 100%. That is why we often talk about a higher trust threshold for appointments by recommendation, not because the prospect trusts you blindly, but because they give you upfront credit. And in fact we could place this threshold around 30 out of 100, sometimes more, if the recommendation is very strong or if your positioning is very, very clear, you can gain a few more points. That is to say, the prospect has clearly identified your products, your services and if they call you it is because it could meet their demand. But beware, this credit is fragile, it can melt away very quickly if the salesperson adopts the wrong posture.

Trust level depending on the channel

[00:05:24] Camille de Meeûs: And if the appointment comes via social networks, or a mailing, a website, is there the same level of trust?

[00:05:29] Stéphane Depaepe: So there, I would immediately drop the trust threshold down to 10, 20? Insofar as he has already made a decision, and that's good, but he doesn't really know you.

[00:05:42] Camille de Meeûs: Okay, let's finalize the picture. What do you estimate the initial trust threshold to be in a cold appointment?

[00:05:49] Stéphane Depaepe: Below ten. In any case very low, sometimes close to zero, sometimes even negative, if an appointment is forced. In fact, the prospect doesn't know you, and wasn't expecting you; they agree to talk to you not out of trust, but because they have a little bit of openness or curiosity. Be careful, this can also happen if you haven't been clear in your communication, if you cast too wide a net with ads that are just too catchy. There, in that context, you can have appointments where the trust threshold is well below ten. So, in a cold appointment, your role is not to capitalize on existing trust, but to make up for a deficit.

[00:06:29] Camille de Meeûs: And it's clear that this is a crucial nuance. In one case, we manage capital; in the other, we invest to create it. That clearly changes everything. The way of speaking, questioning, proposing. In fact, you are building a relationship and you must instill the necessary dose of trust.

The 4 levers to build trust

[00:06:45] Stéphane Depaepe: I suggest four elements to build trust. And actually, it's not so much me suggesting these four elements, it's really the synthesis of the feedback from companies I've had the opportunity to support over time, when I asked them the question 'How do you build trust?'. So the first point is openness to others, being outward-looking, listening to them, understanding them, and making sure they feel it. A second point is authentic intent, meaning being genuine in all circumstances, honest, transparent, and having a real intention to help them succeed. It's not about imposing, but building and proposing.

[00:07:24] Camille de Meeûs: That really is the position of a life coach, the one who is ready to listen to help, and it's a contract made beforehand between both parties. The coachee and the coach, we're going to move forward together, hand in hand.

[00:07:36] Stéphane Depaepe: Third point, proven professionalism, meaning the provision of real added value based on skills and expertise.

[00:07:44] Camille de Meeûs: In fact, it's simply about being credible by demonstrating our mastery in different ways. Using the right words, accurate words, knowing how to explain case studies, using undeniable truths, such as statistics, shared assertions, etc. etc.

[00:07:59] Stéphane Depaepe: And finally, a fourth point: an appropriate attitude, meaning the way you act, smile, look at them, your behavior, your self-image, your company's image, respecting commitments, arriving on time, honoring an appointment, submitting an offer at the right time, saying what you are going to do... And doing what you say.

Adapting your posture to the prospect’s profile

[00:08:18] Camille de Meeûs: In fact, that is clearly knowing how to play the mirror effect, and there are plenty of little techniques for that. Adapting your offer according to purchasing motivations. Do you remember SONCAS? Adapting to their way of functioning according to an R.A.M.I. type model. As a reminder, people who are more inclined to favor relationships or more oriented towards action or working methods, or even always ready to build new ideas. In fact, it's the chameleon salesperson.

[00:08:44] Stéphane Depaepe: Yes. It is really about being congruent, too, in form and content. Your whole person must be in tune with what you are saying; to be convincing, you must be convinced.

The importance of the first seconds

[00:08:57] Camille de Meeûs: Clearly, clearly in a prospection meeting, you must keep these four points in mind, and also, be very careful to, on the one hand, perfect the first 20 seconds of the initial contact: eye contact, smile, posture, first words, and above all always remain consistent throughout your first meeting and in the repetitiveness of contacts as the relationship is built.

The role of time in the relationship

[00:09:19] Stéphane Depaepe: So parallel to this question of trust, we must talk about time, because this relationship is built over time and it is a matter of managing the level of trust over that time.

Confusion between interest and trust

[00:09:31] Camille de Meeûs: In fact, in an inbound meeting, the prospect is already in motion. They made a move, they clicked, they called, they filled out a form or accepted a recommendation. In other words, they have activated something in their mind, and it is rarely completely clear, but they are already mentally engaged. They compare, explore, evaluate, and often they feel like they have the upper hand, they have the feeling of controlling the pace. And that is where the salesperson needs to be very sharp in this famous time management.

[00:09:56] Stéphane Depaepe: In fact, the salesperson often confuses motion with trust. Just because someone comes to you doesn't mean they trust you, it just means they think you are worth evaluating. As we were saying, the trust threshold is higher than in pure prospecting. Maybe 20 or 30, but certainly no more than that. If you accelerate too fast, you will burn through the trust capital. If, on the other hand, you don't move fast enough, you risk losing their attention and interest.

Finding the right sales pace

[00:10:25] Camille de Meeûs: Everything is actually a matter of balance. Often, some salespeople accelerate too fast, they propose, they quote, they promise, they clearly skip steps. For various reasons, because they are afraid, afraid of losing the lead, afraid to tackle less mastered topics, or because they think the sale is already closed, or because they feel superior to the requester.

[00:10:43] Stéphane Depaepe: In an outbound meeting it is different, time is not structured the same way. In fact, the prospect does not visualize how long it will take them, how far they will go, how far they will be taken. The prospect wasn't expecting you, you are an interruption, a solicitation, and so your first mission is not to sell, but to create a timeframe and a frame of attention. Your mission is to help the prospect tell themselves 'This subject deserves some energy'.

Creating attention in prospecting

[00:11:11] Camille de Meeûs: In other words, you have to help your contact tell themselves that this subject deserves their time. In fact, you don't create an urgency, you establish a priority. This heavily involves tackling certain topics in the first meeting, and managing the agenda well.

Establishing priority with the prospect

[00:11:24] Stéphane Depaepe: And so that is the essential question for every salesperson. Do you adapt your pace depending on the origin of the meeting? Outbound or inbound? Or do you always apply the same cadence at the risk of losing either attention or credibility?

Differences in sales mindset

[00:11:41] Camille de Meeûs: So we also talk a lot about the prospect's mindset, but very rarely about the seller's. And yet it changes profoundly depending on the type of meeting. In an inbound meeting, the seller tends to switch into reactive mode, wanting to answer quickly, do well, be pleasant, and sometimes becomes too accommodating. They listen, yes, but they no longer dare to direct; they respond to the request, even when it is poorly formulated.

Defensive selling in inbound

[00:12:04] Stéphane Depaepe: That's what we call defensive selling. In fact, we put ourselves in a subordinate position without realizing it. Conversely, in an outbound meeting, the seller is often more structured, or at least they should be. They have prepared their pitch, they know where they want to go, but they can fall into the opposite extreme. Too much caution, too much restraint, too much patience, they wait for the prospect to open all the doors... when it is precisely their role to open them.

Opposite excess in prospecting

[00:12:29] Camille de Meeûs: True mastery is remaining consistent in one's posture, being both attentive and directive, benevolent but always guiding. Whether the meeting is inbound or outbound, you are there to guide, not to undergo.

[00:12:41] Stéphane Depaepe: The worst I've ever heard is actually starting a prospecting meeting by asking the question, "What do you expect from me? Why are we meeting today?". In fact, you can be almost sure you'll get shot down. Remember the good technique: whoever asks the questions leads, you know where you want to go, so take the right paths to get there. Don't try to teleport directly to the destination.

Sensitive topics often avoided

[00:13:03] Camille de Meeûs: So let's recap. We've talked about trust, we've talked about timing, we've talked about the seller's posture. And I now propose a fourth point which is fundamental: the topics we avoid.

[00:13:13] Stéphane Depaepe: Indeed, in an inbound meeting, many salespeople don't dare to challenge the request. They take the brief as is, they execute. As I was saying, a submissive posture. However, an inbound request isn't always a mature request; it's sometimes vague, misguided, or dictated by bad past experiences.

[00:13:33] Camille de Meeûs: And conversely, in an outbound meeting, it's often the budget, the decision, and the commitment that cause minor problems. We postpone topics, we tell ourselves it's not the right time yet, but by constantly avoiding them, we build a real sales journey that becomes wobbly. The key is not to say everything too quickly; it's to say the right things at the right time, depending on the level of trust.

Addressing budget, decision and commitment

[00:13:54] Stéphane Depaepe: At the same time, what I advise is to approach your outbound prospect directly with a very high business level posture. We don't have time to lose, we get straight to the point. If you've made a good introduction, if you've captured enough attention, if you've created an atmosphere conducive to discussion, you can afford to quickly identify who is around the table, and what the decision-making or influencing powers are. Validate the timing: is it right to discuss this or that topic? And even why not, if budgets might exist in this perspective, that's part of those famous life insurance questions, meaning: if you don't address them quickly, there's a high risk of losing your sale on one of them.

Structuring the sale without skipping steps

[00:14:35] Camille de Meeûs: A question often comes up: is sales a linear journey or a mechanism that can go from point A to C without passing through point B? The important thing is not to skip steps.

Sales as a staircase, not a straight line

[00:14:46] Stéphane Depaepe: I see reality more as a staircase that we climb. The goal is to reach the top, meaning the space where you enter the negotiation phase under good conditions. But at the same time, you have to check all the boxes which are not always aligned with each step of the staircase. In fact, at the top of the stairs, there are still exit doors for your prospect, loopholes that will make you lose the sale, but at least you have made it there. You have made it there because you have earned all the trust points. You haven't gone too fast, nor too slow, you've covered all the topics you feel your counterpart needs to understand, and you've gathered all the information you need to ensure you know exactly what should be sold and how it will be sold. Actually, these checkboxes for an inbound meeting or an outbound meeting are not the same.

[00:15:36] Camille de Meeûs: If you sell IT services or if you provide cleaning staff, or if you support companies in their financial organization, do you really need to have your checklist to reach the top of the stairs?

[00:15:45] Stéphane Depaepe: Yes. You must define which information must have been perfectly understood and accepted. What objective information do you need to have before moving on to the next step? But also, what is the mindset of your counterpart at each step? What are the trust points earned? This work is preliminary, and must be done as much for handling inbound meetings as for outbound or prospected meetings.

Summary

[00:16:16] Camille de Meeûs: Ok great, thanks for this technical tool. Ultimately, regardless of the origin of the meeting, inbound or outbound, the fundamentals always remain non-negotiable. Good preparation by clearly differentiating the two scenarios, managing trust with the four points we've already discussed, openness to the other, authentic intention, professionalism, attitude, time management, timing, and content in building the relationship. A beautiful mechanism, in fact. Or a beautiful journey, or both together?

[00:16:45] Stéphane Depaepe: These are different starting points towards the same destination, so it's a journey. Because a map or a GPS is welcome, but also a mechanism since everything is linked and intertwined. And like any beautiful mechanism, it needs to be oiled, and the salespeople need to be fueled with content training, technical training, or even attitude training.

Episode closing

[00:17:07] Camille de Meeûs: Well positioned to sell the PHCom service, the goal here is always the agreement between both parties, we go further together. Thank you Mr. Performance.

[00:17:15] Stéphane Depaepe: Thank you Mrs. Harmony

[00:17:17] Stéphane et Camille ensemble: See you very soon for the next episode of PHCom

• [00:01:07] Introduction
• [00:01:34] Prospecting profiles
• [00:02:32] Why the brain hates prospecting
• [00:03:03] Facing rejection
• [00:03:19] What to do
• [00:03:35] Scripts and misconceptions
• [00:04:17] Understanding what to do when you hear “no”
• [00:04:59] The hunting metaphor
• [00:05:37] Identifying the right company
• [00:05:58] The right argument at the right time
• [00:06:09] The prospector and their tools
• [00:06:56] Game, rhythm and challenge
• [00:07:14] Mental posture
• [00:07:40] Extrinsic vs intrinsic motivation
• [00:07:58] Tough days
• [00:08:13] The power of micro-goals
• [00:08:57] Motivation as a result
• [00:09:26] The prospector’s posture
• [00:09:56] The memory of success
• [00:10:20] Mindset
• [00:10:30] Mental control of the conversation
• [00:10:45] The body before the mind
• [00:11:08] Learning and applying techniques
• [00:11:41] Testimonial: active listening as the key to prospecting
• [00:12:06] Testimonial: enjoying discovering new companies and contacts
• [00:12:33] Testimonial: the pleasure of human contact in prospecting
• [00:13:01] Testimonial: accepting “no” and understanding statistical logic
• [00:14:10] Testimonial: loving the job and human exchanges
• [00:14:25] Curiosity and understanding others
• [00:15:02] Using notes and summaries
• [00:15:16] Turning listening into commercial progress

[00:00:13] Stéphane Depaepe: Hello and welcome to this new episode of the podcast "Performance, Harmony & Commercial", produced by PHCom in the "transforma bxl" studio in Brussels with the technical assistance of "The Podcast Factory Org".

[00:00:23] Nadia Ben Jelloun: The "Performance, Harmony & Commercial" podcast is intended for marketing and sales managers as well as company directors taking on commercial roles.

[00:00:32] Stéphane Depaepe: Every month, we share good experiences with you regarding the search for new clients for businesses active in business-to-business.

[00:00:38] Nadia Ben Jelloun: You can find each episode on the PHCom dot be website, P.H.C.O.M., and also on all good podcast platforms.

[00:00:48] Stéphane Depaepe: You can support this podcast and boost its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible via a like, a comment, a share.

[00:00:55] Nadia Ben Jelloun: The answering machine is always active so you can leave us a message; we will gladly answer it.

[00:01:00] Stéphane Depaepe: You can also book an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane by going to PHCom dot be.

[00:01:06] Nadia Ben Jelloun: See you soon.

[00:01:07] Stéphane Depaepe: Hello Mrs. Harmony,

[00:01:08] Camille de Meeûs: Hello Mr. Performance.

[00:01:10] Stéphane Depaepe: Mrs. Harmony, are you cut out for prospecting?

[00:01:12] Camille de Meeûs: And you, Mr. Performance, are you cut out for prospecting?

[00:01:15] Stéphane Depaepe: Well, let's be honest, prospecting is something you either love or hate.

[00:01:19] Camille de Meeûs: Or maybe you think you hate it because you don't understand what goes on in the mind when you prospect.

[00:01:25] Stéphane Depaepe: Exactly. So today, we are not going to say "You just need to get moving".

[00:01:28] Camille de Meeûs: No, we are going to ask a real question: are you cut out for prospecting? And above all, why?

[00:01:34] Stéphane Depaepe: Yes, because if you force yourself every day, well, that's not professionalism, that's burnout. Tell me, Mrs. Harmony, why did you finally get into prospecting yourself?

[00:01:46] Camille de Meeûs: I think the greatest quality for a prospector is listening and trying to understand the needs of the client, of the person you are calling. And you, Mr. Performance, why?

[00:01:57] Stéphane Depaepe: Well, I'm going to tell you right away that it's not because I like doing this or I like doing that, but it's mainly because I am me, it's just me. And me, Mr. Performance, well know that I am curious. I like to find out, I like to understand, so I like to listen. And ultimately, it becomes obvious to be able to meet, to set an appointment and to open the door. And so as a result, I am very happy at the end of the day when I have actually opened my doors. So I admit there are plenty of other good reasons why I've been doing this for 30 years, but right now that's mostly what I'm thinking about.

[00:02:32] Camille de Meeûs: Prospecting, we can still say it, remains a quite particular activity. It combines three things that the brain hates: rejection, uncertainty, and effort without immediate rewards.

[00:02:44] Stéphane Depaepe: Exactly, essentially prospecting goes against nature. In fact, your brain loves the familiar, it loves quick validation, a little hit of dopamine, it loves security. And here, in fact, you call someone who hasn't asked for anything, you don't know what context you're walking into, you don't know what's going to happen.

[00:03:01] Camille de Meeûs: And above all, who might maybe tell you no in three seconds.

[00:03:03] Stéphane Depaepe: So first question for the listener who is wondering if they are cut out for this job: when someone tells you no, do you take that as information or as a personal attack?

[00:03:15] Camille de Meeûs: Being made for prospecting isn't about liking rejection, it's knowing how not to carry it.

[00:03:19] Stéphane Depaepe: Really? And how do you do that?

[00:03:21] Camille de Meeûs: As the Toltecs say, don't take anything personally. If not now, it will be later. If not him, it will be someone else. There is always a positive outcome; behind the one who tells you no, there is always someone who will tell you yes. It's like sunshine after the rain.

[00:03:35] Stéphane Depaepe: Another misconception is that good prospectors love scripts.

[00:03:39] Camille de Meeûs: Oh really? I don't really believe that, it must box them in, right?

[00:03:43] Stéphane Depaepe: Actually, you're right; indeed, I think they love mastering the subject and especially not reciting a text like a robot. The script is actually not a prison, it's... Okay, perfect at the beginning, it gives you a map that tells you where you are going, but it won't tell you how to walk. What you really need is to master the subject. If anything, it's like in the theater, it's true, you can have a text and you can't deviate from it, but the way you act it out will give it so much color that the audience will appreciate it. And when you prospect, well, your audience is your prospect.

[00:04:17] Camille de Meeûs: In summary, for the candidate prospector, do you prefer reciting sentences or rather understanding what you do and why you do it? And then we'll add another layer: do you know what to do when someone tells you no?

[00:04:29] Stéphane Depaepe: So here, we might move from theater to improv, knowing that to handle 'no's well, you need to have acquired certain reflexes. In fact, these reflexes are somewhat of a structure. Both improvisers and prospectors have reflexes, automatisms, because without them, it's true, it creates anxiety. So the good news is that it can be learned, it can be practiced. So better than a script, take a framework, but ultimately, you can also use ready-made phrases, ready to draw.

[00:04:59] Camille de Meeûs: Ah, and is that the meaning of hunting for prospects?

[00:05:02] Stéphane Depaepe: Not only. Do you know the difference between a good and a bad hunter?

[00:05:06] Camille de Meeûs: Absolutely not, I don't know it.

[00:05:08] Stéphane Depaepe: So the difference is fundamental. The good hunter sees something moving and shoots, the bad hunter sees something moving and shoots, but it's not the same thing. More seriously, the good hunter shoots the right beast, seeking above all to track the game with patience and passion. That means a hunter will identify a presence, a track, sounds, movements, and know if there's something interesting or not.

[00:05:37] Camille de Meeûs: In prospecting, we're therefore talking about finding the right company, classifying it as A in the system: A, B, C, or D, and therefore finding the right person.

[00:05:44] Stéphane Depaepe: Exactly. The hunter wants to understand the terrain where they roam, at what time, under what conditions; they observe before acting.

[00:05:52] Camille de Meeûs: And when they act, I imagine they will position themselves correctly, not too early, not too late, and above all, not at random.

[00:05:58] Stéphane Depaepe: Yes, the right argument well placed, at the right time. And if they don't propose a meeting, well at least they know if it's worth pursuing or not.

[00:06:07] Camille de Meeûs: And do they hunt alone?

[00:06:09] Stéphane Depaepe: Hunters are not alone, but it's still them who decide. Prospectors are also alone, but they are also surrounded: by marketing, by communication, by a good brand, by people who have put together good files, by an IT team that has developed a good CRM because there's a good manager driving them, and... But in the end, it's up to them to act.

[00:06:33] Camille de Meeûs: It's true that it's super important to have solid foundations, support, and above all a good understanding of what you're looking for. On the other hand, they must still often feel alone because they make many contacts, with little immediate feedback. They like talking to others, yes, but they have to accept working alone. In fact, if you need constant approval, prospecting is clearly going to exhaust you. The key is to be autonomous.

[00:06:56] Stéphane Depaepe: Alternative: if you like the game, the rhythm, the challenge, well, those are ways of operating that will move you forward. You don't control every yes, but that can be an obstacle. But you actually control many other situations: like the number of calls, the quality of your preparation.

[00:07:14] Camille de Meeûs: And especially your posture. Meaning the smile, being in good shape, your work environment, and your dynamic. Your mental dynamic, that's the real trigger, it's being happy with your work before having sold. Not "Did I sell?" but "Did I work well?" It takes the pressure off and the motivation comes back.

[00:07:32] Stéphane Depaepe: And as I was saying earlier, there is no point in forcing yourself every day, it is counterproductive; willpower is good but it is a limited resource.

[00:07:40] Camille de Meeûs: Whereas remembering what you like, your drivers, that will really help you. Example. Example, extrinsic motivation is everything related to goals, bonuses, pressure. Or intrinsic motivation, which is more about meaning, mastery, autonomy, that is bottomless.

[00:07:58] Stéphane Depaepe: Yes. Well, now there can be off days, days where nothing goes right, we will tend to mess everything up and then we will quickly tend especially to not want to do anything anymore. And that doesn't work at all, on the contrary, you collapse if you do nothing.

[00:08:13] Camille de Meeûs: But yes, clearly. And in fact, sales energy fluctuates, you can sometimes be tempted to do less. If you are in a slump, I'll give you a little trick to get going, to get yourself restarted. Set yourself micro-goals, you will have quick wins, it will be your immediate feedback.

[00:08:27] Stéphane Depaepe: It is the very principle of having an intelligent discipline, tools, as we just explained, and not a heroic motivation of the type "I set myself completely unrealistic goals", "I force myself" and finally I get tired. So, your profile, if you want to prospect well, is: you know yourself, you know how you operate, you know what you like, and you remember it in case of the blues, while applying the right techniques.

[00:08:57] Camille de Meeûs: Here you touch upon perhaps the most important element, what motivates you. Let's say it right away, motivation is a result, not a starting point. You don't get motivated to prospect.

[00:09:07] Stéphane Depaepe: So, do you mean 'We prospect to get motivated?'. In fact, yes, yes, absolutely, every call is an opportunity to find a motivator. For you, as a person, to go from one call to another. Madame Harmonie, there you amazed me. So if we prospect intelligently, we become motivated again, I love it!

[00:09:26] Camille de Meeûs: And yes, I repeat, motivation is not decided, it is created by the internal state and the posture at the moment of picking up, you know that you will find something you like, that drives you. It can simply be hearing a hello to your hello. Prospecting is really a game, and it will facilitate taking risks, and it will allow you to dare a little bit more each time, and it will be a positive feeling for your interlocutor. You can be motivated, but tired, confident but stressed, what matters is the internal state perceived by your interlocutor.

[00:09:56] Stéphane Depaepe: Yes and I think we are progressing well. So you know the techniques to put yourself in good condition. I take this opportunity to give you four keys that you can keep in mind for every call. The first key is the memory of success, remember a call that went well.

[00:10:13] Camille de Meeûs: In fact, 30 seconds is enough to put you in that state. The brain does not tell the difference between experienced and re-experienced.

[00:10:20] Stéphane Depaepe: Second key. The offerer mindset, in fact you are not bothering, you are offering a possibility.

[00:10:27] Camille de Meeûs: Like 'We offer you the possibility to...'.

[00:10:30] Stéphane Depaepe: Exactly. Third key, regain mental control, you are the one calling, you know where you want to go.

[00:10:37] Camille de Meeûs: Remember anyway. Guiding is not dominating, it's securing the exchange. And for that you have the techniques to guide an interview from A to Z.

[00:10:45] Stéphane Depaepe: Finally, one last key takeaway perhaps from you, Madam Harmony?

[00:10:48] Camille de Meeûs: I would say the body before the mind. Breathing before the call, an audible smile, a slow, steady, firm voice. You always know where you're going.

[00:10:57] Stéphane Depaepe: At the same time. Move, stand up, and walk. In fact, the body leads the mind, so take breaks, and preferably not on your smartphone, but go move around in the fresh air.

[00:11:08] Camille de Meeûs: All these are reminders, these are techniques, but actually, what will characterize a good prospector is either you already master them, or you are ready to learn them, and above all, you put them into practice. In summary, the right question is: do you already know all this, or are you ready to receive it?

[00:11:23] Stéphane Depaepe: When we asked our team what each person considered to be their characteristic that made them "Be a good prospector", well, what stood out was curiosity. I'll let you hear a few comments from these people and it's obvious.

[00:11:41] Camille de Meeûs: Fabio, why do you feel you belong in prospecting?

[00:11:44] Fabio: I don't think I'm specially made for it, but I have a listening skill that allows me to adapt to my prospect's frequency. And the fact of listening, of having active listening, also allows me to adapt my pitch. It's a matter of sensitivity to your prospect, that's what really allows me to have good contact with the person I'm on the line with, it's fluid communication.

[00:12:06] Camille de Meeûs: Christelle, why do you feel you belong in prospecting?

[00:12:10] Christelle: I've always loved doing this job. I love chatting with people, I love discovering new horizons, new companies, etc. And I find it very interesting to be able to interact with different departments, whether it's human resources, or people who are more on the creative side in print, for example, so there, it's something that attracts me, where I feel good.

[00:12:33] Sandrine: It's something I did for a very long time, and a very long time ago too, where I was contacting scientists back then. So I also really like this aspect of making contact, and sometimes even in somewhat complicated environments. I also like this contact with people. So I need that, whether I see them or not, whether it's in a meeting or remotely. It's really something that motivates me. And above all, I know that behind it, a beautiful story is going to be written.

[00:13:01] Stéphane Depaepe: Geoffroy, the question is quite simple: why do you think you are made for prospecting?

[00:13:05] Geoffroy: Excellent question. I think that first, I'm not afraid to take initiative, especially to make mistakes. And so in this sense, prospecting, well I know I'm going to get noes, but I know I'm also going to get yeses. I think I've also made a habit of accepting noes, and that, one of the ways in a sense, that helps me take noes because by definition there will be noes, is telling myself that it brings me closer to the yeses. There is simply a statistical effect in the selection which means that, once you know your success ratio a little bit, ultimately if three tenths of my calls are successful, I know that if I get a no, I'm just getting closer to the three calls that will say yes to me. This statistical aspect allows me to fully absorb the noes without any problem. Perhaps the last thing to say is that I seek above all to understand and not to convince, and I think that can be felt in the calls. I don't put pressure on others, I just want clarity, I just want to position things and see if somewhere, in all honesty on their part, we go further into the information, or not. No pressure to sell since the goal is to understand.

[00:14:10] Stéphane Depaepe: Why do you think you are a good prospector.

[00:14:12] Hamza: Because I love what I do, quite simply. And because I like discussing, I like talking, I like exchanging, learning, that's it. And from the moment you love what you do, well I think you're a good prospector.

[00:14:25] Camille de Meeûs: Well yes, logically, when you're curious, fear decreases. You are no longer focused on yourself. Who is he? What is he experiencing? What is important to him? It becomes a compass, and as soon as you have understood the other person, it becomes obvious, curiosity replaces stress.

[00:14:40] Stéphane Depaepe: And developing trust, that's also something you build, it doesn't fall from the sky. Let's give a little additional technique for the curious, who by definition will make good prospectors, use the memory of success. Remember a sale, remember a good call, remember a smooth conversation.

[00:14:57] Camille de Meeûs: And as a result, exploit what you note down too, it allows you to prepare for a call.

[00:15:02] Stéphane Depaepe: Obviously the ideal is to know how to directly synthesize what your contact gave you, during the discussion, because then you will be able to immediately mirror, that is to say send back to your prospect what awaits him and he will automatically agree to move forward with you.

[00:15:16] Camille de Meeûs: Result you have reached your goal, you are happier and your next call starts in good conditions. So in fact, you will be a good prospector, a good market developer, if you know how to use what the other person tells you to move forward.

[00:15:29] Stéphane Depaepe: Let's summarize.

[00:15:29] Camille de Meeûs: Let's go!

[00:15:30] Stéphane Depaepe: You are made for prospecting if you accept uncertainty.

[00:15:34] Camille de Meeûs: Which does not prevent getting into the right state of mind before calling, you must always prepare yourself.

[00:15:38] Stéphane Depaepe: If you know yourself well enough, that you know how to understand yourself.

[00:15:42] Camille de Meeûs: Because knowing yourself is a prerequisite, it will allow you to regulate your work, feeling good in your body and good in your head.

[00:15:49] Stéphane Depaepe: If you are curious, that you like to understand, you will be a good hunter.

[00:15:53] Camille de Meeûs: Much better than the one who recites a pitch or waiting for the prospect to come. If you go looking for the information yourself, and you have understood the other person, you will quickly find what will suit both.

[00:16:03] Stéphane Depaepe: If you know how to take a hit without closing yourself off.

[00:16:06] Camille de Meeûs: In fact, you just like to bounce back and play off the other person.

[00:16:09] Stéphane Depaepe: If you know how to transform an initially cold approach, which shows your tension, into a warm approach, proving you're comfortable and know how to master the situation.

[00:16:21] Camille de Meeûs: That simply means you are confident and always open to learning new techniques.

[00:16:26] Stéphane & Camille (ensemble): Then see you very soon at PHCom...

[00:16:28] Stéphane Depaepe: And happy prospecting!

• [00:01:07] Introduction: Barriers at the first point of contact
• [00:01:30] Why these barriers often feel “invisible”
• [00:01:40] Sales is first and foremost a mindset
• [00:01:48] Dakis’ testimonial: adapting to the prospect’s tone of voice
• [00:02:19] Sandrine’s testimonial: the importance of accurate contact details
• [00:02:51] The role of reception
• [00:03:11] When you reach voicemail
• [00:03:45] Voicemail, email, multichannel: what should you do?
• [00:03:59] Dakis’ testimonial: the importance of leaving a message (or not)
• [00:04:21] Sandrine’s testimonial
• [00:05:41] Back to reception as the first gatekeeper
• [00:06:03] Differences between SMEs and large organisations
• [00:06:18] The receptionist as an ally
• [00:06:39] The professional filter: a legitimate role
• [00:06:56] The three profiles of receptionists
• [00:07:25] Adapting your tone and strategy
• [00:07:40] Preparing your objective before calling
• [00:07:52] The question: “What is this about?”
• [00:08:02] Benefit-oriented phrasing
• [00:08:32] What to avoid at all costs
• [00:08:37] Timing tip (early or late calls)
• [00:08:51] Example of a confident tone
• [00:09:02] Gaining information from every call
• [00:09:31] When the receptionist blocks access
• [00:09:40] Turning a barrier into a gateway
• [00:10:24] Practical cases: documentation requests, refusal to transfer
• [00:11:37] The TRAMAIS method
• [00:12:48] The barrier as an entry point
• [00:12:54] The receptionist as a long-term ally
• [00:13:05] Conclusion and call to share the episode

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:13] Hello and welcome to another episode of the "Performance, Harmony & Commercial" podcast produced by PHCom, in the "transforma bxl" studio, with technical support from "The Podcast Factory Org".

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:23] The "Performance, Harmony & Commercial" Podcast is aimed at marketing and sales managers, as well as company executives with commercial responsibilities.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:32] Every month, we share with you our best practices in finding new customers for business-to-business companies.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:38] You can find each episode on the PHCom point be website, P.H.C.O.M, and on all the good podcast platforms.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:48] You can support this podcast and promote its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible via a like, comment or share.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:55] The answering machine is always open so that you can leave us a message, which we'll be delighted to answer.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:00] You can also book an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane on PHCom dot be.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:01:06] See you soon!

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:07] Hello everyone, and welcome to a new episode of the PHCom series, the podcast where we explore together the secrets of effective prospecting, without stress and always with a smile.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:17] And today, we're tackling the salesperson's nightmare when it comes to canvassing companies, blockages at the entrance!

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:22] Those famous invisible barriers that waste your time. You feel like you're going round in circles, that you're not getting anywhere, and that you can't always talk to the right person.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:30] Why invisible?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:31] Because I get the impression that you start out thinking that you don't know who to approach, or that you're not going to get the right person on the other end of the phone. And that's what's blocking us from the start.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:40] We can't stress it enough: sales is all about the mind. Listen to what Dakis says, when asked how he approaches a company?

Dakis: [00:01:48] I'm not afraid of anything, I'm prepared for any eventuality. What I'm afraid of is that he or she won't get up on the right foot, so there's apprehension, so I'm always waiting to see which intonation will pick up on my call. And I try to adapt precisely to the prospect's vibrations, so I can get down to his level. If the person seems a little more concise, a little more in a hurry, or a little more pragmatic, I'll adapt. If the person looks relaxed, I adapt too.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:14] Well yes, I think he's right, we know it's going to work, optimism through and through.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:02:19] And if we go a step further, when we ask the question about the brakes, listen to what Sandrine has to say.

Sandrine: [00:02:23] If you have direct contact details, that makes life easier, seriously. After that, when we go through the switchboard, it's a matter of convincing the person that our call is useful to the company and that it's not the 1,000ᵉ call of the day that they're going to have to deal with. So you have to be able to stand out from the crowd, in terms of the message you convey, you have to be inventive, because every company is different.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:51] Finding the right person's name. And we know that in France, it's a real drag - she's a bit French, isn't she? And then there's the front desk, which may or may not want to give us the right contacts.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:03:01] You say the right word, she can't, that's the rule, and it's often the case at the reception. And if he doesn't want to, it's because he doesn't see the point, and that's often the case with a secretary or assistant.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:11] Now, let's say you've already got your contact's contact details, he's unavailable and you come across his voicemail.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:03:18] Well, let's see how to deal with this situation? Do you have the person's name and contact details? Well, it already depends on the database. So let's not talk about it too long, because it's already been covered in other episodes. In short, in PHCom Data Management's database, chances are you already have the name of the contact, otherwise you have LinkedIn, you have all the other tools that exist like Zoom-info, Loucha, le Trens, Konig, Casper, Rocket Search etc etc etc.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:45] Let's say you got the name directly, did you approach it live then?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:03:49] In this case, there are three possible scenarios. Voice mail, either it never answers, or you're passed on to another service. Listen to what Dakis has to say.

Dakis: [00:03:59] We're on trial for this, aren't we? We have an email process, but otherwise I leave a voicemail with an email, I always do both. This allows me to have an introduction in the e-mail, "Further to the voice message I sent you, in which I told you about this", and here I go on in the e-mail. Look, I don't have a ready-made answer either, I'm just trying to multiply the channels.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:04:19] I'm like Dakis, I also leave a message.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:04:21] Yes, Sandrine too, listen to her.

Sandrine: [00:04:23] Ah but I'm leaving a message, there's nothing worse than having, I think like everyone else, when you get a call and it's hung up you tell yourself it's not important. So people don't call back, so what I do is leave a message with my contact details, saying why I called. So, if they're not interested, they don't call back and in these cases I put in my little note to call them back a little later. And if I don't, I call back, leave a message asking them to call me back with my contact details, and customers sometimes call me back. It happened yesterday, and afterwards there was an appointment, so it's still working.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:04:55] Well, I'm going to surprise you: the technique of not leaving a message also applies. Because the person actually identifies a phone number and doesn't know who it is, so he calls back. And anyway, you can't leave 36 messages either, if he really doesn't reply, you really shouldn't harass, so you be the judge. Intensity, reminder frequency, leave a message, don't leave a message - it's up to you to decide what works best. Of course, if you've now been forwarded to another service, that means you've already got the person's name, you've probably already left messages, so you've got plenty of reasons to have a chat with the person you're talking to. Take the opportunity to prepare for a future call, gather information from colleagues, so you can really use all this information when you actually make contact with the right person.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:41] Back to the classic barrage: reception or secretary?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:05:44] Okay, let's make the distinction right away: small businesses, SMEs, large companies. Their role is to dispatch calls, but they're not the ones who really put up a barrier, except when it comes to disclosing or not disclosing people's names, and that depends on the rules established by the company.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:03] For small businesses, there isn't really a reception desk, but a Mr or Mrs X or Y who can answer in place of the person I want to reach. Again, this person can give me information and tell me when it's best to approach my contact.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:06:18] Ok, so let's effectively consider this person as an assistant, or a secretary, or conversely, a secretary or an assistant. They're not enemies, they're allies. The mind, the mind, the mind.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:31] Exactly. So let's see how we can get around it, or better still, how we can get them to play on our side.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:06:39] First of all, let's put things into perspective: when we talk about a dam, we're talking about a professional filter. The secretary's role is really to protect her boss's time, not to annoy you.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:48] Yes, it's a bit like the front door of the castle: if you arrive without an invitation, without a clear reason or by slamming the door, she's bound not to let you through.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:06:56] And there are many different types of secretary. First, the very methodical, very precise "executive profile" secretary, who handles every call like a military operation. Impossible to pass without a real good justification.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:08] Then there's the "administrative secretary", who is more procedural and follows the rules. You call, she transfers or not according to protocol, no room for improvisation.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:07:17] And then there's the "cautious" one, the one who's already had negative feedback and in fact no longer takes any risks. So if she doesn't know your name, it's a no-go.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:25] That's why you need to adapt your tone, and your strategy, to each profile. When a secretary is stressed, suspicious or under pressure, you can immediately hear it in her voice.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:07:34] Yes, and that's where the smart salesman comes into his own. Because it's benevolent, because it's calm, because it's reassuring.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:40] Before you call, be clear about your objective: who you want to reach, why and in what capacity? Remember, you're always the first impression you make on the company. So be professional, courteous and confident.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:07:52] And prepare your answer to the famous question "What's it about?"

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:57] Ah yes, that moment when it all comes down to it. Here, you need to be precise without being too talkative.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:08:02] Exactly, "I call it a solution that helps companies reduce their international communication costs". It's clear, it's clean.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:08] Or "I'm following up on a previous exchange about optimizing internal processes".

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:08:13] The key is to use a sentence that's focused on benefiting the company, not yourself. Avoid vague formulations such as "I would like to speak with ....". About a project where...", or even worse, "I'm calling Monsieur So-and-so, it's personal" (Camille de Meeûs: Ah yes), never do that.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:32] Oh yes, that's a direct red card. We never lie, let's not forget, we're B2B.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:08:37] Here's a little tip: play with timing. Call early in the morning, before 9 a.m., or late in the day, after 5 p.m. - it's often quieter.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:44] Yes, at such times, the manager is sometimes at his desk, the secretary not yet, or already gone. Timing is everything.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:08:51] And if you run into her, well okay, you'll be able to sound confident, not dominant. Example: "Hello, Stéphane Performance for Camille Harmonie please, I'm calling to schedule an appointment".

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:02] We don't ask "Could I maybe talk to him?". No, you calmly say "I'd like to speak to Mr. Thing" or again, if you don't have the name, "I'd like to speak to the person responsible for". And here, the key lies in gathering information. Find out his name, what time he comes to work, whether or not the company has worked with this type of service before. And don't forget, every call is a source of enriching information, and this will enable you to best prepare your contact with the person you're targeting.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:09:31] What if it blocks you? Well, never mind, we'll keep smiling and bounce back "I understand he's very busy. Maybe you can help me get a message across?"

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:40] And then you enhance it, turning the dam into a footbridge.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:09:43] That's right, it's the status game. In fact, you must always be at the same status as the person you're targeting. But at the same time, you can't be more than a secretary. So put yourself on her level, listen to her, find a way to collaborate with her, either real or... Use ice breakers, talk about something else, make this person an ally, even a friend, call them by their first name after all. Ask him his first name, and ask him some useful questions: "By the way, what's the best time to contact him or her? Is he in meetings all day, or more available in the early afternoon?"

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:20] And once again, make a note of everything - this information is worth its weight in gold for your next call.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:10:24] Okay, let's talk about a few practical cases, like "Send me some documentation first, I'll pass it on". Classic mistake: we obey. So especially if he says "Yes, send it to me info at..." Mmm, the generic email address.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:39] Yeah, and in that case, the mail often ends up in the junk folder or is even forgotten. But sometimes it can happen too, depending on the structure, whether it's small or large.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:10:49] I offer you a response profile, "Send me some documentation". "Yes, of course, I understand, it's precisely to make this documentation useful that I need to get a better idea of your needs. That's why a brief exchange with Mr. Machintruc Bazar would be much more pertinent".

Camille de Meeûs: [00:11:04] And if she insists, we listen and move on to other things. A face-to-face exchange is much nicer than an e-mail exchange in today's world, so let's take our time and see what synergies are possible.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:11:16] Yeah. Another case, the most classic, she really doesn't want to give the name of the caller. You can also bounce back like "Oh yes, I understand, it's your procedure, but can you maybe just confirm that this is the purchasing manager?" For example. Talk to her, get her to talk, she can give you lots of information.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:11:37] Or "I was in contact with Mr. So-and-so. What exactly is its role? And sometimes, by calmly asking the right questions, you get a lot more than you bargained for. Now we're going to give you a little mnemonic tool, the "Tramais" method, to remind you of everything we've just explained in this podcast.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:11:53] Yes, you never know what might be lurking around the corner, do you? So cram "T" like timing, call at the right time, choose the hours between 8am, 10am, after 5pm, at noon . "R" for relationship, stay respectful, nice, relaxed. "A" for a good attitude, stay confident, neither arrogant nor submissive. "M" For words, choose your vocabulary clear, clean, professional. "A" for help, involve the secretary in the success of your call, she can really be a tool. By the way, what's his job? It's helping, she likes helping, so ask her "Can you help me?". "I" For information, take advantage of the exchange to glean lots of useful information, and "S" for what comes next, always prepare what comes next: a reminder, an appointment, a follow-up - the "Tramais" method works!

Camille de Meeûs: [00:12:48] Well, if you've applied these seven points, the secretary's dam will become a real privileged gateway.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:12:54] And remember, a secretary is a good storyteller, often an ally for life.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:12:57] Thank you all for following us, and if you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your colleagues who are still battling with the Standard every day.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:13:05] Or better still, send the podcast to your favorite secretary, she'll love it.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:13:09] See you soon for another episode.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:13:10] Above all, keep Performance and Harmony in mind.

• [00:01:07] Introduction to the topic: the lexicon of expression
• [00:01:31] 1. “Belly-on-the-floor” expressions
• [00:02:09] The four Toltec agreements
• [00:03:24] Examples of “belly-on-the-floor” expressions
• [00:03:48] The ideal rephrasing?
• [00:04:09] Energy shift through a proposal
• [00:04:30] 2. Hesitant expressions
• [00:05:34] 3. Dark words
• [00:05:44] 4. Barbed-wire words
• [00:06:11] Words and the weight of words
• [00:06:42] The little daily bombs
• [00:06:56] Words that elevate the conversation
• [00:07:21] Words that speak about the client, not the seller
• [00:07:34] Cicero’s three pillars
• [00:07:59] How to correct yourself concretely
• [00:08:25] How to train
• [00:08:49] In summary
• [00:09:23] A small challenge
• [00:09:36] Episode closing

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:13] Hello and welcome to another episode of the podcast "Performance, Harmony & Commercial" produced by PHCom in the "transforma bxl" studio using the techniques of "The Podcast Factory Org".

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:23] The "Performance, Harmony & Commercial" podcast is aimed at marketing and sales managers, as well as company executives with commercial responsibilities.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:32] Every month, we share with you our best practices in finding new customers for business-to-business companies.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:38] You can find each episode on the PHCom point be website, P.H.C.O.M, and on all the good podcast platforms.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:48] You can support this podcast and promote its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible via a like, comment or share.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:55] The answering machine is always open so that you can leave us a message, which we'll be delighted to answer.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:00] You can also book an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane on phcom dot be.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:01:06] See you soon!

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:07] Hello everyone, welcome to "Performance, Harmonie & Commercial", the podcast where we talk about prospecting, sales, but above all human relations.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:15] And today, we're going to talk about something that may seem insignificant but changes everything: words. The words we use on the phone, in appointments, in customer follow-up. Because the right word opens doors. A clumsy word slams them in the face, sometimes!

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:31] Exactly. You know I was listening to a prospecting recording recently the other day, and the salesman starts with: "Hello sir, may I disturb you for two minutes". And there, I assure you, I felt the door close even before the first sentence!

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:43] Classic. The guy wanted to be polite and turned into a nuisance. It's typical of flat-bellied expressions: we apologize for existing when we've come to offer value. So behind the attitude, there are words, and words are creators, words create situations. Let's take a look at what not to say, and more importantly, what to say. It's a state of mind we're taking you towards.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:09] Aren't we talking about the Four Toltec Agreements?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:02:12] Let's take a look at this Central American people who, around the year 1000 AD, set out to establish a code of conduct for living a free and fulfilled life.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:22] The first agreement is that your word be impeccable, and that's really the topic of the day.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:02:27] And the second, and third, are also in line with the subject, and in perfect continuity with the treatment of objections we talked about in the previous episode. Secondly, whatever happens, don't take it personally. In short, don't judge yourself. And the third, don't make assumptions, means try to understand, Dig.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:49] And fourth, always do your best, i.e. commit yourself fully to your actions, but realistically and without perfectionism. So just learn, move on, correct, improve by listening to yourself, but above all don't put too much pressure on yourself. As a result, these principles aim to free individuals from limiting beliefs and collective conditioning, thus promoting inner peace and unconditional love.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:03:15] Okay, it's beautiful. There's also a fifth Toltec agreement: Be skeptical, but learn to listen. So welcome to this episode, stay tuned!

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:24] So let's start with the one you were talking about: flat-bellied expressions that put us in a position of inferiority. For example, I'll give you a few sample sentences: "Sorry to bother you, but I won't waste too much of your time, don't worry. I'm sorry, it's really not my fault".

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:03:39] Phrases full of good intentions but which undermine your credibility. Because by saying "I'm bothering you", you program the other person to think "Yes, indeed, you're bothering me".

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:48] What would be the ideal reformulation for you?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:03:51] Not with what's in your head. You're not bothering him, because you've got a solution for him. So you might say, "I'm calling because I've got an idea that might save you some time on this subject".

Camille de Meeûs: [00:04:05] And "I won't waste too much of your time, don't worry". So what's in it for you?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:04:09] "I may have a solution for your business. I have something that will please you. I have something to brighten your day". We're no longer begging, we're proposing.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:04:19] And that's the key: we sell help, not intrusion. Help means not putting yourself on the same level as the other person, neither below nor too far above them. Don't patronize him either.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:04:30] Second category: doubtful expressions. You know, all those little words of doubt that sabotage confidence without us even realizing it.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:04:40] Ah yes, I can see that. The maybe, possibly, if possible, I think, I think, when you say "I think our solution is interesting", the customer hears "He's not sure himself".

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:04:52] But "I'm convinced this is the right approach" changes everything. Look, "I think this is a good time to talk about it"...pfff Not good. "It's the right time to judge the effectiveness of this type of solution", now you're convincing. And in fact, to be convincing, you have to be convinced.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:10] Exactly. And it's really the same with the conditional. "I would have liked to know if you had desired", then there, it is really the festival of the doubt. Replace the whole thing with the present asserted, "I suggest you meet our representative next week".

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:05:25] Again, if I doubt, he'll doubt too.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:28] That's right, it's like a verbal contagion: your certainty gives you confidence and your hesitation scares you away.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:05:34] Third category: black words. Those who install a negative logic. They flay, they tense, they trigger defensiveness.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:44] We can also call them barbed wire words, for example: Problem, complaint, error, never, impossible, risk. So many words that make our stress levels rise.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:05:55] Exactly. If you say "You run no risk", the customer just hears the word risk. I don't know if you've noticed, but there are always "R's" in those "barbed wire" words.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:05] Whereas a simple "Our system works safely" puts everyone at ease, it's easier, it's more obvious.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:06:11] Same thing with words like: costs, expenses. These words can become: investment. Or problem, well, it can become a question, a specific request.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:22] And then my favorite is: "Don't worry", it's really the best way to worry someone. In this case, it's better to say "Our team ensures your complete satisfaction".

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:06:33] Last example, "I don't know". Well, no, I don't know, it becomes "I'll find out and call you back". It's simple, it's professional, it's reassuring.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:42] And let's not forget the little bombs of everyday life. "But no, you're making a mistake", It's perceived as an aggression. On the other hand, "You might think that, but it's precisely our solution that answers that question", and that's where we clearly keep the customer in the discussion.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:06:56] Well, after you've eliminated the toxic words, the ones that bring doubt, or put you at a disadvantage. Let's talk about words that elevate the conversation.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:06] Yes, these are the positive, clear and above all solution-oriented words. Words that inspire confidence include: improve, simplify, optimize, adapt, win, streamline and secure.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:07:21] And above all, words that speak to the customer, not the salesperson. Your team, your objectives, your efficiency. When we say "you", we create a bond. When we say "I", we're talking about ourselves.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:34] And in rhetoric, we find the three pillars of my dear friend Cicero. One, ethos, meaning credibility, professional and precise words. Two, pathos, emotion, a tone that is sincere and positive. Three, logos, logic, a discourse that is clear, concrete and structured.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:07:52] It's the trilogy of the salesman who speaks his mind. We already talked about this in the episode "How to make a good argument?"

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:59] So we know what to avoid, we know what to say... But how do you actually correct yourself?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:08:05] A simple method: Register.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:07] Ah yes, it's true that we all think we speak well, until we listen to ourselves. And that's when we discover our "heu's", our "I think so's", our "I've just got a quick question".

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:08:17] The idea is to identify these stray words, rephrase them, and practice speaking with strong, positive, precise words.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:25] But how do you go about training? What tips could you share to help you evolve in all circumstances to use the right words that will put the other person more at ease.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:08:33] It's a real mental workout. Choosing your words also means choosing your posture. With an assertive, respectful, clear posture, so it's first in your head, do you approach your day positively? How can you put yourself in a positive frame of mind first thing in the morning?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:49] Yes, it's true, when it comes to posture, I knew someone who put a mirror in front of his desk to remind him to smile. Maybe just remember the Four Toltec Agreements? So, in short, banish belly-flat expressions, replace doubt with conviction, avoid black words and choose clear ones instead, and practice speaking like someone who brings value.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:09:09] So, yes, be comfortable in your head, be well prepared, and write your good words. Because in the end, words are the music of trust. And customers can't be bought, they have to be given.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:23] Wonderful sentence. And as always, we leave you with a little challenge: this week, record one of your conversations, and count how many times you say "maybe", "sorry" or "no problem", you'll see, it's quite revealing.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:09:36] That's more of a challenge than a small one. See you soon for another episode of "Performance, Harmony & Commercial". And until then, remember, good words make good sales. So I'll leave you with one last word: subscribe, enjoy and learn.